tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post7520724143594978735..comments2023-07-31T11:01:56.340+01:00Comments on Parrish Lantern's PomesAllSizes: Is there such a thing as literary non-fiction? If so, how do you define it?@parridhlanternhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12793548943992250238noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-60963282036767870252011-01-12T22:12:18.470+00:002011-01-12T22:12:18.470+00:00Hi Em, Tought You might find this interesting, it ...Hi Em, Tought You might find this interesting, it comes from " The Anthologist" by Nicholson Baker - "THERE'S NO EITHER OR DIVISION with poems.What's made up And what's not made up? What's the varnished truth, What's the unvarnished truth? We don't care. With prose you first want to know: is it fiction, is it nonfiction? Everything follows from that. The books go in different places in the bookstore. But we don't do that with poems, or with song lyrics. Books of poetry go straight to the poetry section. There's no nonfictional poetry and fictional poetry. The categories don't exist."<br />Hope you enjoy.<br />Parrish.<br />ps it's a good book, one that lovers of poetry will especially appreciate.@parridhlanternhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12793548943992250238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-81036675667562675882010-12-10T14:40:50.337+00:002010-12-10T14:40:50.337+00:00But... can a list/record of events be really consi...But... can a list/record of events be really considered as a narrative? I'm not sure I agree with that Oxford English Dictionary definition...<br />I agree with your comment on editing and fictionalising, which annoys me! With the annals though, you do not have the retrospective aspect. Yet, what is recorded is what seemed important to the person at that time. Tricky... This is something I need to think more about, but that might have to wait.<br />But what do you make about narrative poetry? Surely The Faiery Queene is fiction, no?<br />Can anything expressed through the medium of words be actually considered as non-fiction? Language in itself ficionalises reality.<br />Could the expression of things that are abstract be considered as non-fiction then (which would probably bring us back to your original view of poetry, although I don't think it could apply to all poetry)? If we try to represent things that are abstract, then we can't fictionalise as what we represent is non-existent, therefore, it could be considered as non-fiction. That would actually be an artefact, so can artefacts be non-fiction?<br /><br />Ok, I'd better stop before I start getting a headache! I've never thought about some of these things before, but I'll surely keep thinking about them.Emhttp://emeire.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-49640915794353662972010-12-05T16:14:47.764+00:002010-12-05T16:14:47.764+00:00Hi Em, just to muddy the water-- The Oxford Englis...Hi Em, just to muddy the water-- The Oxford English Dictionary defines annals as "a narrative of events written year by year. Also any process that edits in some form or another must fictionalize, purely by leaving stuff out.Back to poetry, if concrete poetry is nonfiction, concrete poetry being "poetry in which the typographical arrangement of words is as important in conveying the intended effect as the conventional elements of the poem, such as meaning of words, rhythm, rhyme and so on." this being a genre within the canon of poetry, then by default poetry is nonfiction whether literary or not & looking at some of the poets writing within that genre, I'd plump for literary(at least some of it). thanks for your continuing imput, as this has really fired my neurons & got me thinking.<br />Parrish.@parridhlanternhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12793548943992250238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-44959768890482414982010-12-03T00:01:16.083+00:002010-12-03T00:01:16.083+00:00I think that anything that has followed a process ...I think that anything that has followed a process of narrativisation becomes to a certain extent fiction. I would see annals as non-fiction, while a historical narrative would be fictionalised and thus not purely non-fiction. However, poetry confuses me and I can't figure out where I should place it in my classification. That's why I'm think that concrete poetry might actually be non-fiction, but then, is it really literary?Emhttp://emeire.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-65724721471267138032010-12-01T12:50:42.803+00:002010-12-01T12:50:42.803+00:00Hi Em, if you take what is purely factual as your ...Hi Em, if you take what is purely factual as your basis for nonfiction,ie what can be known empirically, then feelings, ideas expressed etc couldn't be counted as covered by the term nonfiction, but apart from excluding poetry, wouldn't that also exclude philosophy, to a certain extent psycho analysis (dream interpretation, free association etc.) & also a great chunk of memoirs written over the years. All of the above rely to a certain extent on feelings, on thoughts & theories, conjecture, ideology,& interpretation based on apriori knowledge as opposed to empirical data.Thanks for your comments & I'm glad it's making you think,as that was the idea (to stimulate debate) because it's the same for me, still trying to work out where the boundaries are, or if there are any.@parridhlanternhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12793548943992250238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-46379527513375231452010-11-30T23:59:25.147+00:002010-11-30T23:59:25.147+00:00I suppose you're right in some ways as poetry ...I suppose you're right in some ways as poetry can do away with narrative. I'm thinking about it and trying to turn things around in my head, but it's getting late.<br />Your haiku example seems adequate, but you say that because it has to do with feelings, for instance, it is non-fiction? I am not convinced about that. by expressing your feelings through words, don't you fictionalise to a certain extent? Maybe concrete poetry would be a good example?<br />I am not opposed to your idea, I'm just reflecting on it.Emhttp://emeire.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-1124409115720817822010-11-22T20:22:39.595+00:002010-11-22T20:22:39.595+00:00Hi Thebookstop. TIme & a TBR large enough to b...Hi Thebookstop. TIme & a TBR large enough to be seen from space is a problem i can well understand.<br />Thanks<br />Parrish@parridhlanternhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12793548943992250238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-89268135065373672412010-11-22T03:08:04.594+00:002010-11-22T03:08:04.594+00:00These books sound fascinating! I always wish I re...These books sound fascinating! I always wish I read more nonfiction... of course there isn't time to read half the books I want to. I enjoyed my visit to your blog!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-65641433666823665812010-11-21T14:54:50.284+00:002010-11-21T14:54:50.284+00:00Hi, Em, don't you think poetry could be the pu...Hi, Em, don't you think poetry could be the purest form of nonfiction, as it is often a thought, a feeling, or an object distilled down to its essence, like for example this haiku from Masaoka Shiki<br /><br />at this time <br />morning glories fix the color <br />deep blue <br /><br />with its depiction of the oncoming of summer.<br />Barthes, forgot about him have a couple of books on my bookshelf as well.<br />Thanks for your views.<br /><br />Why IngridLola, my deepest thanks<br />It's because i am enjoying your challenges.<br /><br />Jillian, just the default setting, of a shy & retiring bookfiend<br />thanks for your comment.<br /><br />Hello Gautami, thanks & please do, I'm loving the idea that books I love may be appreciated by others.@parridhlanternhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12793548943992250238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-2539677998103512182010-11-21T01:34:17.008+00:002010-11-21T01:34:17.008+00:00You showcase some intriguing books. I will check t...You showcase some intriguing books. I will check those out!<br /><br />Here is my <a href="http://readbookswritepoetry.blogspot.com/2010/11/literary-blog-hop-literary-non-fiction.html" rel="nofollow">Literary Blog Hop</a> post!gautami tripathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04192356825699543613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-6599946463818166102010-11-21T00:03:41.930+00:002010-11-21T00:03:41.930+00:00*When I first saw this, I blinked, looked again, t...*When I first saw this, I blinked, looked again, then turned & ran.*<br /><br />Ha ha! Me too!<br /><br />You highlight some interesting selections. Thank you for sharing. :-)*ೃ༄ Jillianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14139487177036647728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-60326882769619053632010-11-20T22:54:00.500+00:002010-11-20T22:54:00.500+00:00This post seems to me like a piece of literary non...This post seems to me like a piece of literary non-fiction itself ...IngridLolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16079137600900264656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-35327529077707742062010-11-20T22:50:18.978+00:002010-11-20T22:50:18.978+00:00"a book that has your persona written through..."a book that has your persona written through its very spine"; so true...<br /><br />Poetry crossed my mind, but then, isn't it another beast altogether?<br /><br />Bachelard? I agree and we could of course add Barthes to that. That's one thing I have noticed when reading theory, French theory is usually very literary (to the point that it makes it really difficult to grasp) and I find it even more literary (and difficult) in the original language, despite it being my native language; something to ponder...Emhttp://emeire.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-80948605885377952102010-11-20T21:37:03.221+00:002010-11-20T21:37:03.221+00:00Hi Sam, This is almost Murakami's missing nove...Hi Sam, This is almost Murakami's missing novel,it's surprising how many hardened murakami fans have not heard or read this which is a shame as it's a fantastic book, his nearest fictional equivalent is "After the quake" which has similar subject matter ie something awful happened, then what happens next. Thanks for dropping by.<br /><br />Hi pete, Yeah I know, at times I feel like I'm becoming a bit obsessive with my championing of this book. But as I've probably said before this book was one of those that changed not only what I read, but how I perceived literature, I remember I was working in Berlin & after work I'd come home to my flat & spend the evening trying to understand the authors intent, focusing on passages until I thought I understood them.<br />Thanks for the comment.<br /><br />Hi Bellezza,you & I both long time Haruki fans, have had this chat before, yet we both still have no answer for some of our fellow citizens behaviour, which is both scarey & at the same time allows for optimism.<br />Thanks for stopping by.<br /><br />Hello,Susan I thought nonfiction was easy,until I looked at a few answers from other blogs & saw that not everyone thought poetry or philosophy was nonfiction, then what about memoirs etc.hence my bravery/<br />Thanks for your comment.<br /><br />Hi JoAnn, If new to Murakami, try A collection of short stories called - The Elephant Vanishes (reviewed here)or the novel - Kafka on the shore, which was my first Murakami.<br />Thanks.<br /><br />Hi Rose city reader (still love the name)when buying After Babel make sure it's the later edition as this has the revised text & adds russian & east european material also a new preface setting the book in the present context of hermeneutics, poetics & translation studies. my edition (the 2nd) is pub 92.<br />Thanks for your interest.<br /><br />Hi Readerbuzz, Thanks for your comment of what is truly a fascinating book, will check out your review of it for some more pointers, as I'm not sure I understood all of the books implications.<br />Thanks again.@parridhlanternhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12793548943992250238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-5838457134833036072010-11-20T20:32:17.290+00:002010-11-20T20:32:17.290+00:00I hadn't looked at Underground in this way, bu...I hadn't looked at Underground in this way, but you are right. It changes completely how I reviewed it. Thank you.<br /><br />Here's <a href="http://readerbuzz.blogspot.com/2010/11/literary-blog-hop_18.html" rel="nofollow">my post</a> on literary nonfiction. I'd love to hear what you think. <br /><br />And if you have read any wonderful literary books <br />published in 2010, I urge you to nominate your favorites <br />for <a href="http://indielitawards.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">The Independent Literary Awards</a>. The awards <br />include categories of <a href="http://indielitawards.wordpress.com/literary-fiction/" rel="nofollow">Literary Fiction</a> and <a href="http://indielitawards.wordpress.com/non-fiction/" rel="nofollow">Literary Non-Fiction</a>. <br />Nominations close December 15.Deb Nance at Readerbuzzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12128529491888701996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-27727188705805238912010-11-20T17:48:42.158+00:002010-11-20T17:48:42.158+00:00These are great choices. I've recently become ...These are great choices. I've recently become very interested in the idea of translations, so the first book is going on my Christmas list. The Murakami is going on my husband's because it is right up his alley.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.rosecityreader.com/2010/11/literary-blog-hop-im-not-making-this-up.html" rel="nofollow">Rose City Reader</a>Gilion at Rose City Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18080293172467000794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-90670540392835635372010-11-20T14:10:47.773+00:002010-11-20T14:10:47.773+00:00Good discussion of this topic! I really must read ...Good discussion of this topic! I really must read Murakami....JoAnnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13691864361197071517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-26339185990011479622010-11-20T00:41:15.308+00:002010-11-20T00:41:15.308+00:00Nice discussion! I thought it was hard enough defi...Nice discussion! I thought it was hard enough defining literary. Nonfiction was the easy part. Obviously, I didn't give it enough thought! You're right. It makes my head hurt!Susan from Reading Worldhttp://susancoventry.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-71836001539578481782010-11-19T23:57:52.598+00:002010-11-19T23:57:52.598+00:00I loved Murakami's Underground. What a fascina...I loved Murakami's Underground. What a fascinating look at not only the courage of the Japanese people, but the bizarre thinking of the cult. So interesting that a group who can't find meaning any where finds it in following a twisted leader and hurting others...Bellezza https://www.blogger.com/profile/18073864187188953633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-85547250400000458102010-11-19T23:23:01.321+00:002010-11-19T23:23:01.321+00:00I haven't read any of these. I know that you&...I haven't read any of these. I know that you've recommended After Babel to me more than once and I really need to get a copy. Same with Underground. Good post!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1434302889299955261.post-53211079038809019792010-11-19T21:28:17.177+00:002010-11-19T21:28:17.177+00:00I've added Underground straight to my reading ...I've added Underground straight to my reading list. I hadn't heard of it before, but it sounds fascinating.Sam (Tiny Library)https://www.blogger.com/profile/16375434438465319913noreply@blogger.com